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Feb
21

Michael Mann Faces Bankruptcy as his Courtroom Climate Capers Collapse

Written by John O'Sullivan

Massive counterclaims, in excess of $10 million, have just been filed against climate scientist Michael Mann after lawyers affirmed that the former golden boy of global warming alarmism had sensationally failed in his exasperating three-year bid to sue skeptic Canadian climatologist, Tim Ball. Door now wide open for criminal investigation into Climategate conspiracy.Mann arrest photo

Buoyed by Dr Ball's successes, journalist and free-speech defender, Mark Steyn has promptly decided to likewise countersue Michael Mann for $10 million in response to a similar SLAPP suit filed by the litigious professor from Penn. State University against not just Steyn, but also the National Review, the Competitive Enterprise Institute and Rand Simberg. Ball's countersuit against Mann seeks "exemplary and punitive damages. " Bishop Hill blog is running extracts of Steyn's counterclaim, plus link.

Mann’s chief undoing in all such lawsuits is highlighted in a quote in Steyn’s latest counterclaim:

“Plaintiff continues to evade the one action that might definitively establish its [his science’s] respectability - by objecting, in the courts of Virginia, British Columbia and elsewhere, to the release of his research in this field. See Cuccinelli vs Rectors and Visitors of the University of Virginia...”

At last, after 3 years of legal wrangling, it is made clear why I was so bold as to formally undertake an indemnity to fully compensate Dr Ball for my own actions in the event Mann won the case.  Respected Aussie climate commentator, Jo Nova was one of the few to commend my unparalled commitment to Ball's cause.

Steyn’s legal team, aware of the latest developments from Vancouver, have correctly adduced that Ball has effectively defeated Mann after the Penn. State pretender’s preposterous and inactive lawsuit against Ball was rendered dormant for failure to prosecute. Under law, Mann’s prevarications, all his countless fudging and evasiveness in the matter, establishes compelling evidence that his motive was not to prove Ball had defamed him, but more likely a cynical attempt to silence fair and honest public criticism on a pressing and contentious government policy issue.

The fact Mann refused to disclose his ‘hockey stick’ graph metadata in the British Columbia Supreme Court, as he is required to do under Canadian civil rules of procedure, constituted a fatal omission to comply, rendering his lawsuit unwinnable. As such, Dr Ball, by default, has substantiated his now famous assertion that Mann belongs "in the state pen, not Penn. State."  In short, Mann failed to show he did not fake his tree ring proxy data for the past 1,000 years, so Ball’s assessment stands as fair comment. Moreover, many hundreds of papers in the field of paleoclimate temperature reconstructions that cite Mann’s work are likewise tainted, heaping more misery on the discredited UN’s Intergovernmental Panel for Climate Change (IPCC) which has a knack of relying on such sub prime science.

Where Do We Go From Here?

It will likely be open season on Mann. Anyone may now freely dismiss him in the harshest terms as a junk scientist who shilled for a failed global warming cabal. Without fear of his civil legal redress, we may now refer to Mann for what he is: a climate criminal, a fraudster.

Being that Mann's suit in the BC court was filed 3 years ago before he filed against Steyn, it appears Dr Ball will be first in line with his counterclaims and pipping Steyn for the well-deserved $10 million compensation prize. That’s if Mann's financial backers (most notably, the David Suzuki Foundation) aren't bankrupted first.

Woe for Weaver, too

But the more savvy climate analysts will note something here that is far more important scientifically than just Ball’s sensational legal victory over Mann. That is Ball’s more telling concurrent court triumph over Professor Andrew Weaver, “climate scientist” at the University of Victoria, BC, Deputy Leader of the Green Party of British Columbia, and a member of the British Columbia Legislative Assembly. Weaver has also established himself as the IPCC’s lead climate modeler.

Long-time readers may recall that Weaver also sued Ball for libel in February 2011, some months before Mann took a punt at it.  David Suzuki's mouthpiece, desmogblog.com made huge fanfare of it at the time. Both Ball and I suffered the ignominy of having all our online articles removed from the Canada Free Press website after CFP caved into the bully boy tactics masterminded behind the scenes by the deep-pocketed David Suzuki and his Desmogblog cronies, who thereafter smeared my name, too).Suzuki

Weaver’s libel suit against Ball has also now been rendered dormant due to failure to prosecute because Weaver, like Mann, won’t disclose his (similarly dubious) metadata. Both these prominent men have been expensively represented by one of Canada’s top libel experts, Roger McConchie, who claims he “literally wrote the book on “Canadian Libel and Slander Actions.””

This is an epic double whammy for Ball. As an inadvertent courtroom martyr for climate skeptics Dr Ball has destroyed the credibility of both the IPPC paleoclimate record (Mann’s ‘hockey stick’ graph ‘science’)  and all those IPCC  computer model ‘projections’ of a dangerously warming climate (Weaver’s ‘science’). And all achieved in the most important ‘peer reviewed’ venue possible – a government court of law. The threat of the cold light of truth being shone on their "secret science" was a step too far for Mann and Weaver. As such,  the alarmist (false) claims of a cooler past climate presented by Mann, and doomsaying computer model projections of a dangerously warming future climate, presented by the still hugely influential Weaver, would not stand up in court.

So, forget Steyn’s case – the court victories that count, in terms of the scientific (and political) consequences, are entirely due to Tim Ball. By tenaciously and bravely defending his actions for three long years the mild-mannered septaugenarian has single-handedly proved that the very core of government climate science is junk. Thereby, this instance of 'science on trial' is no less significant, in the broadest sociatal context, as the infamous Scope's Monkey Trial of 1925. 

But was the "evidence" for global warming intentionally and illegally concocted? By their persistence in hiding their data we may think so, as far as Mann and Weaver are concerned; while Dr Ball's latest sensational book,''The Deliberate Corruption of Climate Science;' detailing the Climategate shenanigans, is a 'must read' as to culpability. But only a full criminal investigation will be determinative of all that. The question now is, will the U.S. and Canadian governmental authorities have the stomach to delve deeper?

 

Comments  

Mervyn
#1 Mervyn 2014-02-21 08:44
This is absolutely brilliant news, and congratulations John in relation to your support for Tim Ball. This has just made my day!
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jsullivan
#2 jsullivan 2014-02-21 09:17
Thanks Mervyn. Yes, it's fantastic news. Mann has lost spectacularly and Ball richly deserves all the plaudits for his courageous stance. It was a great honor for me to play my bit part.
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Eddy Aruda
#3 Eddy Aruda 2014-02-21 09:49
Mr. Sullivan, I have often read your posts at Jo's site. Thank you for what you have done. I hope history, which is written by the victors, will remember what you have accomplished.

Huevos Grande, counselor! :-)
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jsullivan
#4 jsullivan 2014-02-21 10:06
Eddy, many thanks. We shall now see if the MSM will come to their senses and let the truth win out.
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Sam Pyeatte
#5 Sam Pyeatte 2014-02-21 11:29
This is great news. Make sure it is spread far and wide. It will be a major blow to the socialist drive for global control. Freedom, truth and real science wins.
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Mike Harris
#6 Mike Harris 2014-02-21 11:38
Great, wonderful news. Congratulations on your support of Ball, this really has made my weekend. The final question as to having the stomach to investigate, sadly I feel not.
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Fred the Lad
#7 Fred the Lad 2014-02-21 11:41
Such excellent news. Taking down Mikey Mann, Andrew "Black Helicopters" Weaver, Dr, Fruit Fly and the desmogblog in one fell swoop . . . priceless.

A bucket full of greenie gaia loving nutbars gets their just rewards.
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Kent Clizbe
#8 Kent Clizbe 2014-02-21 11:44
John,

This is really great news. Congratulations!

We still need a whistle-blower.

I'm working on encouraging insiders (grad students, IT guys, colleagues) close to Mann to do the right thing.

Like all criminal conspiracies, the surest and clearest way to reveal the conspiracy is an insider who sees the light.

Keep up the good work.

Think positive!

Kent
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norpag
#9 norpag 2014-02-21 11:55
The refusal of Mann and Weaver to make their metadata available shows once again the fragile basis of the IPCC modeling forecasts on which the whole now crumbling edifice of the CAGW scare relies.
There has been no net warming for 16 years and the earth entered a cooling trend in about 2003 which will last for another 20 years and perhaps for hundreds of years beyond that.
The current weather patterns in the UK and USA are typical of those developed by the more meridional path of the jet stream on a cooling earth. The Fagan book “The Little Ice Age ” is a useful guide from the past to the future. The frequency of these weather patterns, e.g. for the USA the PDO related drought in California and the Polar Vortex excursions to the South will increase as cooling continues
The views of the establishment scientists in the USA and the UK Met office’s publicity in this matter reveals their continued refusal to recognize and admit the total failure of the climate models in the face of the empirical data of the last 15 years. It is time for the climate community to move to another approach based on pattern recognition in the temperature and driver data and also on the recognition of the different frequencies of different regional weather patterns on a cooling ( more meridional jet stream ) and warming (more latitudinal jet stream ) world.
For forecasts of the coming cooling based on the 60 year (PDO) and the 1000 year quasi-periodicities seen in the temperature data and the neutron count as a proxy for solar activity in general see several posts at
climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com
For a review of a 3 year update of a 30 year forecast see
climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com/2013/07/skillful-so-far-thirty-year-climate.html
For an estimate of future NH temperature trends see the latest post at
climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com
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FauxScienceSlayer
#10 FauxScienceSlayer 2014-02-21 13:24
Introduce as evidence the excellent "Hockey Stick Illusion" by A W Montford. Also introduce as evidence the ACTUAL Physics of the atmosphere. All objects in the Universe 'emit' energy based on their temperature. The ~ 6,000K Sun emits a broad, bell shaped curve spectrum with three 'absorption' band for CO2. The 2.7 micron band [800C], the 4.3 micron band [400C] and the 15 micron band [-80C]. Earth never gets hot enough to emit CO2 absorption, except in the 15 micron band witch is shared with water vapor.

Over 30% of the Sun's radiant energy is absorbed or reflected in the atmosphere before it can warm the Earth, meaning the air and CO2 both COOL the Earth. See

http:///sites/default/files/the%20Sun's%20energy.pdf

EVERYTHING about Climate Alchemy is a FRAUD.
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Louis Hooffstetter
#11 Louis Hooffstetter 2014-02-21 13:45
Ding dong, the witch is dead,
the witch is dead,
the witch is dead.
Ding dong, the wicked witch is dead!
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Walter S Allensworth
#12 Walter S Allensworth 2014-02-21 14:38
Whoo-hoo! Who can I send money?
This is fantastic news.

The time has come for those that dare to censor us and shut us down with smear to get their comeuppance.

The clock it ticking for the Global Warming Nazi's who dare to attach a denier label to REAL scientist.
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Squid2112
#13 Squid2112 2014-02-21 15:54
I'm just curious. Once all of this gets swinging away, which I sincerely hope it does, successfully, could (and we should) begin hitting other outlets with law suits? Specifically NOAA, NASA and GISS for their fraudulent data and other things, like fraudulent climate models, etc..

Steven Goddard has been doing a bang up job lately of exposing just how corrupt and fraudulent the temperature data is, and how badly they have been manipulating the data in each of the sets. I would like to see HUGE class action law suits regarding these things. This is SUPPOSED to be public data! They have been manipulating OUR data and using it against us to illegally impose taxation upon us. This is corruption of the highest order and should be met with the severest of punishments available.

Just saying...
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Rob Honeycutt
#14 Rob Honeycutt 2014-02-21 16:07
Strangely, there is an amazing lack of references in this article. Were are the links to the court docs that support what's being stated here?
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MarineCorpsVet
#15 MarineCorpsVet 2014-02-21 16:17
Somebody should also go after the Weather Channel. They have abated recently but several years ago their weatherbabe Heidi Cullen, who is not to be seen anymore, was front and center cheerleading for GW.
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Kent Clizbe
#16 Kent Clizbe 2014-02-21 16:21
Squid,

The Federal "False Claims Act" is specifically designed to root out fraud in Federal contracting.

If these "scientists" are receiving Federal funding, and are falsifying, faking, or otherwise committing fraud in order to receive, or continue to receive the funding, they are subject to the False Claims Act.

The Act has a provision to motivate insiders to share their knowledge of the fraud--whistleblowers.

Anyone can bring an action under the False Claims Act. Once fraud is proven, the grant recipient institutions are forced to pay back the fraudulently obtained funds. The whistleblower who provides the information to prove the fraud is then entitled to a large chunk of the recovered funds (10-25%).

If all of Mann's federal grants were found to have been fraudulently obtained, a whistleblower would be entitled to a couple of million dollars under the False Claims Act.

I've been working to identify whistleblowers willing to come forward for several years. The tipe may well be ripe now.

Kent Clizbe
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Paul Burtwistle
#17 Paul Burtwistle 2014-02-21 16:30
This will be remembered as a historic victory and congratulations to Tim Ball and his supporters.
Slowly but surely, the whole AGW scam is unravelling and the scientists who have distorted the data, misled both politicians and the public are being found out.
I just hope that this is the first in a series of legal actions against the real climate criminals.
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Greg House
#18 Greg House 2014-02-21 16:44
Quoting Kent Clizbe:
If these "scientists" are receiving Federal funding, and are falsifying, faking, or otherwise committing fraud in order to receive, or continue to receive the funding, they are subject to the False Claims Act.


Then I am afraid the most of "climate science" is subject to the False Claims Act. In the first place everything that is based on "global temperature" or "greenhouse effect" by back radiation. Might backfire on some skeptical climatologies though.
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Jimmbbo
#19 Jimmbbo 2014-02-21 16:54
That's one small step for mankind!

Mann made global warming is a FRAUD
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMqc7PCJ-nc

A toast to Tim Ball and Mark Steyn for putting a nail in coffin of the global warming hoax...

BRAVO!!
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jsullivan
#20 jsullivan 2014-02-21 16:59
Walter, donations can be made at the top right hand side of the page using the yellow 'donate' button. All monies received invested into our mission to debunk junk science. Thanks,
John PSI CEO
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bernie1815
#21 bernie1815 2014-02-21 17:04
Citation of court documents please.
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Miner49er
#22 Miner49er 2014-02-21 17:24
Carbon dioxide IS NOT a 'greenhouse gas". CO2 is in perfect equilibrium in the environment. A high-school sophomore can compute a mass balance for carbon dioxide using credible public information sources. Do your homework!

We can use as much fossil fuels as we please without having any effect on climate. Anthropogenic global warming is a textbook mania, based on falsehoods. The media continues to feed the mania by promoting false assumptions. We can use as much fossil fuels as we please without having any effect on climate. Regulating or limiting human CO2 emissions is a colossal waste of money and effort.

While carbon dioxide may show nominal greenhouse properties in the lab, it has no adverse effect on climate. Changes in atmospheric ambient CO2 are the result of natural temperature changes caused by other forces, likely the solar Maunder cycle. A warmer temperature results in a higher equilibrium CO2 content. Cooler weather means less ambient CO2.

96.8% of CO2 emissions are from natural sources. The earth reabsorbs 99.9985% of CO2 emitted from all natural and human sources. The average residence time of CO2 in the atmosphere is less than 11 minutes. It goes into seawater, where it is quickly converted to carbonate rock, where it will remain for tens of millions of years.

Limestone, for example = CaCO3. An acre of oysters or coral can form more than ten tons of carbonate rock in a single growing season. The carbonate formation process is voracious and robust, and will consume all the carbon dioxide that humans can generate.

See: www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Reference_Docs/Carbon_cycle_update_Segalstad.pdf
and
www.cprm.gov.br/33IGC/1345952.html
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jsullivan
#23 jsullivan 2014-02-21 17:53
Bernie, fair point. We've added a link above. Check out the extracts from the court docs now posted on Bishop Hill blog
bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2014/2/21/steyns-counterblast.html
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Alex Hamilton
#24 Alex Hamilton 2014-02-21 18:01
Michael Mann

I understand you think greenhouse gases (mostly water vapor) cause the "33 degrees of warming" rather than it being already there because gravity forms an autonomous lapse rate.

So I'm asking "What is the sensitivity to a 1% change in the percentage of water vapor above any particular region?"

You see, I just want to work out if, say a wet rain forest with 4% water vapor is supposed to be about 20 degrees hotter than a dry desert with only 1% water vapor.

My problem is that a comprehensive study based on 30 years of temperature data on three continents showed that wetter regions had lower mean daily maximum and minimum temperatures than dry regions.
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Greg House
#25 Greg House 2014-02-21 18:05
Quoting Alex Hamilton:
Michael Mann

I understand you think greenhouse gases (mostly water vapor) cause the "33 degrees of warming" rather than it being already there because ...


Doug, there is no "33 degrees of warming" and you know that.
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Nightrider
#27 Nightrider 2014-02-21 20:05
Quoting Fred the Lad:
Such excellent news. Taking down Mikey Mann, Andrew "Black Helicopters" Weaver, Dr, Fruit Fly and the desmogblog in one fell swoop . . . priceless.

A bucket full of greenie gaia loving nutbars gets their just rewards.

Quoting Fred the Lad:
Such excellent news. Taking down Mikey Mann, Andrew "Black Helicopters" Weaver, Dr, Fruit Fly and the desmogblog in one fell swoop . . . priceless.

A bucket full of greenie gaia loving nutbars gets their just rewards.

Especially if the following law suites sends the above all bankrupt. Than that would be the icing on the cake. Three cheers from commonsense, hip hip hooray, hip hip hooray, hip hip hooray!!!!
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Nightrider
#28 Nightrider 2014-02-21 20:15
Quoting Squid2112:
I'm just curious. Once all of this gets swinging away, which I sincerely hope it does, successfully, could (and we should) begin hitting other outlets with law suits? Specifically NOAA, NASA and GISS for their fraudulent data and other things, like fraudulent climate models, etc..

Steven Goddard has been doing a bang up job lately of exposing just how corrupt and fraudulent the temperature data is, and how badly they have been manipulating the data in each of the sets. I would like to see HUGE class action law suits regarding these things. This is SUPPOSED to be public data! They have been manipulating OUR data and using it against us to illegally impose taxation upon us. This is corruption of the highest order and should be met with the severest of punishments available.

Just saying...

Totally agree with you, hit them hard, and don't let up on them. Al gore is another one who should be sued.
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High Treason
#29 High Treason 2014-02-21 20:21
Now we can enjoy those CO2 bubbles in our icy cold champagne without being made to feel like criminals. Hopefully the whole house of cards starts falling over with some of Mann's work being discredited. If it can be demonstrated there is deliberate fraud involved and the IPCC knew about it, then it is time to attack the IPCC chief, Christiana Figueres over her comments that Democracy was not suited to deal with climate change-Chinese Communism is the best system to deal with climate change. Looks like the UN itself was created to promote world Communism. Very nice of them to withhold this-was it for our own good ? Are the 99% of us who will become slaves to the self-appointed "elites" going to benefit from this? Us 99%ers should be very angry.
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bernie1815
#30 bernie1815 2014-02-21 21:03
I think wishful thinking is confusing and distracting. Steve McIntyre with his typical precision and directness indicates at Lucia's that the Ball - Mann lawsuit is still very much alive. rankexploits.com/musings/2014/comments-on-mann-continued/#comment-124923
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lance
#31 lance 2014-02-21 22:30
I hope this is true, I contributed to Tim's defense when this all came to light....
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Frank Brus
#32 Frank Brus 2014-02-21 23:57
Quoting Kent Clizbe:
John,

This is really great news. Congratulations!

We still need a whistle-blower.

I'm working on encouraging insiders (grad students, IT guys, colleagues) close to Mann to do the right thing.

Like all criminal conspiracies, the surest and clearest way to reveal the conspiracy is an insider who sees the light.

Keep up the good work.

Think positive!

Kent


Surely, the emails Edward Snowden has would also contain some juicy info on the conspiracy as far as the US and other Governments are involved.
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Ian H
#33 Ian H 2014-02-22 00:59
I hate made up stories like this. It makes skeptics look like idiots.
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Stefan Metzeler
#34 Stefan Metzeler 2014-02-22 03:27
I just found your great news on this morning of my birthday and I consider it one of the best gifts, ever!

Finally, the fraudulent nature of this climate hoax is being exposed for what it is!

Thanks to all involved for your efforts and risk taking.
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Truthseeker
#35 Truthseeker 2014-02-22 03:29
Quoting Sam Pyeatte:
This is great news. Make sure it is spread far and wide. It will be a major blow to the socialist drive for global control. Freedom, truth and real science wins.


Do not bother trying to post anything on WUWT as Anthony is snipping any comment with a link to this site.
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john
#36 john 2014-02-22 04:40
Al Gore has made billions from the scam maybe he'll help Mann out....or maybe not, to many planes to pay for!!!!
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Lawrie
#37 Lawrie 2014-02-22 05:42
Bernie 1815 is correct so far as the case being alive. It has not been dismissed and could just linger for years. I'm sure Suzuki et al know that a dismissal will open a can of worms so they will just stall. Steyn will have the same problems with disclosure unfortunately. The AGW crowd understand the consequences of failure here.
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jsullivan
#38 jsullivan 2014-02-22 07:22
Bernie, Steve McIntyre's unqualified editorializing on the merits adds nothing of value. Mann’s lawsuit v. Ball has gone nowhere and is ripe for dismissal for being nothing more than a cynical SLAPP suit, as is Weaver-v-Ball; both actionable as malicious prosecutions.
Ball’s lawyers are well placed due to Mann’s (and Weaver’s) lack of prosecution being that Mann (and Weaver) stalled for 3 years, not complying with disclosure. On that technicality both Mann’s and Weaver’s cases are thus rendered unwinnable.
As a (substantial) financially interested party in the Mann case, due to my personal indemnity to Ball to compensate him fully if he loses, I’m now utterly confident Ball will succeed. Indeed, if Mann wishes to take issue with any of my published articles on the matter this is now a perfect opportunity for him to (a) post his rebuttal (b) sue me for repeatedly describing him as a fraudster and climate criminal and other ‘misrepresentations.’ As usual, I won’t be holding my breath.
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Chris Wood
#39 Chris Wood 2014-02-22 07:50
Great news but you are unlikely to hear about it from the BBC! Why is the MSM so reluctant to report what is becoming more and more obvious weekly. Even the UK Daily Telegraph continues to publish nonsense about Climate Change.
The problem, I think, is that, investigative journalism is almost dead, and many of these reports are of the copy and paste variety the more sensational a claim, the more likely it is to be published.
After all, the MSM exists to make money, unless it is the BBC, in which case it is to promote a left wing agenda.
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carson lauffer
#40 carson lauffer 2014-02-22 08:15
I wonder when the blowhards in the media will stop claiming that man made global warming is upon us?
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bernie1815
#41 bernie1815 2014-02-22 08:33
jsullivan - @38
You need to show me the evidence. I too would like to see Mann go down hard, but wishing and doing are two entirely different things. Can you link to court documents showing that the judge is getting testy with Mann or a ruling demanding disclosure by a certain date?
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matty
#42 matty 2014-02-22 08:43
Hi John and Tim,
Just read those great news.
My congratulations to both of you for your victory which, most importantly, is another victory of truth.
Keep up your good and most important work and good luck for both of you.
Matthias
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#43 Guest 2014-02-22 09:03
This comment has been deleted by Administrator
Yelder Retep
#44 Yelder Retep 2014-02-22 09:04
(SNIPPED)

I expect that the PSI blog admijnistrator Thomas (sunsettommy) Richard (see sub-section 3.9 of “SpotlightON – PSI and PSI Acumen Ltd) will delete this comment but it will be re-posted on “SpotlightON –PSI and PSI Acumen Ltd.” in an additional section "The PSI blog and Censorship" along with others that he has deleted.

(You have been BANNED numerous times here because of your off topic personal attacks and trolling.You have the gall to complain about censorship when you are not interested in the debate itself here)
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bernie1815
#45 bernie1815 2014-02-22 09:14
How can I unsubscribe to this site? The link provided on emails does not work.
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#46 Guest 2014-02-22 09:51
This comment has been deleted by Administrator
haarp
#47 haarp 2014-02-22 11:23
Turns out Tim Ball has NOT defeated Mann, this site loses credibility by the day. FFS you could have at least checked with Tim Ball.

wattsupwiththat.com/2014/02/22/michael-manns-legal-case-caught-in-a-quote-fabrication-fib/
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Fox2!
#48 Fox2! 2014-02-22 11:28
Like all criminal conspiracies, the surest and clearest way to reveal the conspiracy is an insider who sees the light faces three to five years as a guest of Her Canadian Majesty.
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richard 2014
#49 richard 2014 2014-02-22 11:28
Steve McIntyre (Comment #124923)
February 21st, 2014 at 3:46 pm
I checked with Tim Ball and the Ball lawsuit has not been dismissed. They have outstanding discovery requests, but to go from mere delay to succeed in a motion for dismissal is a large step and one that has not been taken.
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Little Johnny
#50 Little Johnny 2014-02-22 11:46
Using Mann's tree ring data from 1,000 years ago (from which there are no records on weather)is perfectly acceptable.

His tree ring data from the 1930s onward (where weather records are available) is not reliable enough to use.

No problem! Draw your own conclusion and cherry pick data to fit it.
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Jeremy Poynton
#51 Jeremy Poynton 2014-02-22 12:08
Um. Sadly, the story it seems, is incorrect.

wattsupwiththat.com/2014/02/22/michael-manns-legal-case-caught-in-a-quote-fabrication-fib/

"While yesterday there was an incorrect story called “Michael Mann Faces Bankruptcy as his Courtroom Climate Capers Collapse“ being pushed by John O’Sullivan at Principia Scientific International (aka PSI and The Slayers) claiming Dr. Tim Ball had defeated Mann’s lawsuit, Ball confirms through communications with McIntyre yesterday that while stalled, Mann’s lawsuit is still very much on. Also, for those who don’t know, we’ve heard that Dr. Mann’s legal bills are being paid by the Climate Science Legal Defense Fund, where we’ve been told there are some deep green pockets contributing, so he isn’t facing bankruptcy, at least not yet."
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Michael D Smith
#52 Michael D Smith 2014-02-22 12:10
I haven't seen anything about dismissal anywhere else. What is your source and is the document available?
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Sunsettommy
#53 Sunsettommy 2014-02-22 14:38
It is clear that Peter Ridley is a determined troll who was BANNED LAST year and refuses to stay away.

I will inform John about this persistent man who keeps crashing the blog with his numerous attacks as he has done elsewhere where he has also been banned.He is a pest in many places and has been told to go away with his numerous off topic attacks on people and organizations.

I advise you to stay away.
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KingofthePaupers
#54 KingofthePaupers 2014-02-22 16:34
Jct: Great news to think that the hoaxer who came up with the trick to hide the decline in temperature we all now see is going to get what he deserves.
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Mervyn
#55 Mervyn 2014-02-22 22:35
John, it might be a good idea to provide a response in relation to Anthony Watt's article:

wattsupwiththat.com/2014/02/22/michael-manns-legal-case-caught-in-a-quote-fabrication-fib/
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Jonny Perth
#56 Jonny Perth 2014-02-22 23:44
This has been a fascinating read.
Here in Perth, Australia, I have been quietly touching base with the engineers in this city on theri stance regarding the global warming debate. Apart from one person, all of the engineers that I polled, agreed that the "science" behind global warming is not true science. This vindication of our knowledge and application of scientific principals simply confirms for me that true scientists simply need to keep doing what we do, which is to use the scientific principals.

Thank you Principia Scientific for posting the article and to all the contributors for you input.
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Matthew Tremain
#57 Matthew Tremain 2014-02-23 00:48
If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear. If you do what is right in the first place, then you can stand without fear.
Lies will be demolished, and the truth will last forever, no matter how well one hides/dresses the lie.
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C Sharp
#58 C Sharp 2014-02-23 10:03
It's great to see these Eco charlatans exposed, which is something to be promoted widely. However science and progress should not be defined as : To interrogate the established wisdom [ in court ! ] in order to increase human knowledge.
The last thing we need is to validate the courts and legal system as the supreme 'peer review'.
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gweick
#59 gweick 2014-02-23 12:11
This is good news indeed, especially now that the Obama administration wants to put coal out of business and control wood burining stoves, etc. Anyone capable of unprejudiced thinking would realize that government's involvement has to do government control, not with so-called "global warming-->climate change". As parties to the Club of Rome stated 40 years ago: “The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself.” — Alexander King Co-Founder of the Club of Rome, (premier environmental think-tank and consultants to the United Nations) from his 1991 book The First Global Revolution
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Carmine Corrente
#60 Carmine Corrente 2014-02-23 14:17
Has there EVER been an era or epoch in Earth's history when the climate was NOT changing? (...I hear the sound of crickets in the Church of Climate Change pews.)

The sun's energy output is NOT constant.
When it burns hotter, what can ANYBODY or ANYTHING on Earth possibly DO about it?
I perceive that most climate change priests know next to NOTHING about basic astronomy:

cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/~zirbel/ast21/handouts/StellarEvolution.PDF

However, this does not in any way diminish the importance of ecological and environmental stewardship. Global toxification IS a very real concern, regardless of warming or cooling trends.

Does it matter whether your cup of poison is hot or cold?

Alas, the near elimination of the seven liberal arts from the public education system has seriously handicapped the minds of those who most influence national and international policies.

The blame falls squarely on the "synagogue of Satan", and THEY know who they are. What is YOUR excuse?
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BB
#61 BB 2014-02-23 15:36
It is inconceivable that a pro-FESSOR such as Michael Mann could have achieved all this prominence and mainstream media presence without a WILLFUL and Compliant and Motivating Infrastructure behind it.

Michael Mann the diseased liar and sycophantic lapdog is simply a symptom of a far greater malaise and disease that is affecting our entire society:
Control from an elite and not control from the public.

This is the real cause for such vermin as Michael Mann.
The root cause must be exorcised least we will fall to another idiotic lapdog such as Michael Mann.
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carson lauffer
#62 carson lauffer 2014-02-23 16:02
:-) I quite agree.
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Gault Falcon
#63 Gault Falcon 2014-02-23 16:52
Quoting jsullivan:
Eddy, many thanks. We shall now see if the MSM will come to their senses and let the truth win out.


The MSM never bothered to report that the USSR was collapsing. My bet is that they will do their best to ignore this excellent news.
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abinico warez
#64 abinico warez 2014-02-23 17:09
If you think some 7+billion belching, farting, car driving humans have no effect on the planet, well you probably also think bitcoin is real money.
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Enonesoch
#65 Enonesoch 2014-02-23 17:44
But John Kerry said, climate change is "perhaps the world's most fearsome weapon of mass destruction". Surely fear-mongering-climate-change- ideologue John Kerry isn't misleading people!
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Billybob
#66 Billybob 2014-02-23 18:19
This is a cause for celebration!

Kool & The Gang - Celebration: youtu.be/3GwjfUFyY6M
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Gault Falcon
#67 Gault Falcon 2014-02-23 18:37
Quoting abinico warez:
If you think some 7+billion belching, farting, car driving humans have no effect on the planet, well you probably also think bitcoin is real money.


7 recoded ice ages followed by 7 massive global warm ups with narry a farting, SUV driving human to be found. How strange.
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carson lauffer
#68 carson lauffer 2014-02-23 19:24
There are two lessons to learn from this: First, follow the money. Second, why is the government shoveling money to these scam scientists? They have a religion of over population. Everything feeds into it. They try to destroy the Church because the Church does not buy into it. They are willing to destroy everyone's freedom in order to promote it.
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Rabbitnexus
#69 Rabbitnexus 2014-02-23 20:14
The question is rhetorical. The Canadian government will do what all the Bankster puppet governments do and ignore the facts. They will ignore this result and push the AGW hoax just the same as before. You have to realise that this has nothing to do with science and everything to do with economics. The media is completely controlled and nothing should make it more obvious than their conviction on AGW which is where the whole thing gets hijacked. If the media don't report it, the official paradigm can't change. Even if the politicians (bought puppets) were to take action on this now, the media could still ensure it goes nowhere and they would.
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Rabbitnexus
#70 Rabbitnexus 2014-02-23 20:19
Quoting Billybob:
This is a cause for celebration!

Kool & The Gang - Celebration: youtu.be/3GwjfUFyY6M


You reckon? I think it will be akin to peeing yourself in a dark suit. It may give one a warm sliding feeling but nobody will notice. People underestimate the degree of media control and corruption within political ranks.
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Rabbitnexus
#71 Rabbitnexus 2014-02-23 20:38
Quoting Jonny Perth:
This has been a fascinating read.
Here in Perth, Australia, I have been quietly touching base with the engineers in this city on theri stance regarding the global warming debate. Apart from one person, all of the engineers that I polled, agreed that the "science" behind global warming is not true science. This vindication of our knowledge and application of scientific principals simply confirms for me that true scientists simply need to keep doing what we do, which is to use the scientific principals.

Thank you Principia Scientific for posting the article and to all the contributors for you input.


I'm also a Perth resident Johnny and I wonder if like me you've noticed how the media, especially foreign media is pushing the lie we're having a severe heat wave this year? Of course the season has been one of the mildest I've seen for years and I'd notice since my business is seasonal and is reliant on the hot sunny weather and we love those heat wave days. Just haven't seen anything out of the ordinary this year on that score, yet to read the MSM you'd think we were going through the ovens.
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Drewski
#72 Drewski 2014-02-23 22:44
Let me get this straight Mr O'sullivan.
You are saying that Tim Ball has counter sued for $10 million and that Mann is almost bankrupt and that Mann had refused to give up his metadata - correct?

Any yet, there is no suit filed in Canada by Ball against Mann as of February 20, 2014 and Mann has publicly made his metadata available now for more than a decade and can be found right now on the internet so it seems a bit odd he would refuse to give it to Ball's lawyers. In regards to Mann's imminent bankruptcy, how would you know?
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wcvarones@gmail.com
#73 wcvarones@gmail.com 2014-02-23 23:06
Penn State, huh?

You could say Michael Mann "Sandusky'd" the data.
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liberty veritas
#74 liberty veritas 2014-02-24 04:40
Quoting abinico warez:
If you think some 7+billion belching, farting, car driving humans have no effect on the planet, well you probably also think bitcoin is real money.


Humans breathe in Oxygen and Breathe out CO2. Any advanced hydroponic grower can tell you that plants will take in all the CO2 you can feed them. Many greenhouses have a special CO2 growing room for seedlings. By providing the seedlings with additional CO2 you get bigger seedlings. All those humans breathing out CO2 provide this to the plants and trees, which in turn through the amazing process of Photosythesis convert the CO2 into plant mass and Oxygen. Those beautiful trees you see get most of their building materials from the Carbon in the air. Gives a new meaning to the term breath of life.

So, yes - the humans do have an effect, a good one. You have been indoctrinated/brainwashed with a pack of lies in school - these lies become self evident when you start to actually examine them with logic and reason. Would suggest you watch Kent Hovind - Age of the Earth on YouTube or read the book Icons of Evolution. This will require a very open mind. Also remember that you are one of those breathing humans. Would be much better if we focused on loving and taking care of one another.

Another thing I would suggest is to watch a few YouTube videos on the slum known as Kiberia and to visit your local homeless shelter and have dinner there.
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Stryks
#75 Stryks 2014-02-24 05:32
Quoting liberty veritas:
Humans breathe in Oxygen and Breathe out CO2. Any advanced hydroponic grower can tell you that plants will take in all the CO2 you can feed them. Many greenhouses have a special CO2 growing room for seedlings. By providing the seedlings with additional CO2 you get bigger seedlings. All those humans breathing out CO2 provide this to the plants and trees, which in turn through the amazing process of Photosythesis convert the CO2 into plant mass and Oxygen. Those beautiful trees you see get most of their building materials from the Carbon in the air. Gives a new meaning to the term breath of life.


You are correct in what you say, however I think you need to take that line of thought a little further.

Plants absorb CO2 and through the process of photosynthesis generate Oxygen and plant matter; roots, stems, leaves and
fruit.

This plant matter forms the base of the
food chain. They are eaten by animals, which are eaten by other animals, etc.

Animals such as humans.

All the carbon in our body comes either directly or indirectly from plants.

Once consumed, the cells in our bodies use this matter along with oxygen to perform cellular respiration, which in turn produces the CO2 we then exhale.

The end result of this process is that the CO2 exhaled is simply returning to where it started out.

Humans don't 'create' CO2. We're part of a carbon cycle.
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Stryks
#76 Stryks 2014-02-24 06:03
Quoting liberty veritas:
Any advanced hydroponic grower can tell you that plants will take in all the CO2 you can feed them. Many greenhouses have a special CO2 growing room for seedlings. By providing the seedlings with additional CO2 you get bigger seedlings.


Not on topic I know, but it's worth noting that enhanced plant growth from increased levels of CO2 is not *entirely* all it's cracked up to be.

There is no doubt that in most instances plant growth is increased with higher CO2 concentrations.

This is particularly true in a greenhouse environment, where temperature, water and nutrient levels can be strictly controlled.

However, under an open air environment, plants appear to gain much less of a boost from high CO2 levels. Assuming that drought and heat stress increases, whether by climate change or 'other', the increases are almost totally offset (the rapid growth is offset by a lack of favorable temperature and water supply).

Further, the increase in growth is not spread equally among plants. Some show good increases, some show a negligible amount.

Also worth nothing is that some studies have found that excess CO2 can make certain species of plant less nutritious for human and animal consumption. This seems to be due to the rapid plant development not allowing the plant time to absorb the required nutrients.

The downside to this is the requirement to consume more plant matter to achieve the same nutrient levels. Quite the challenge in the face of future population levels.

Possibly another concern in traditional farming environments is the idea that crops are not the only plants experiencing increased growth rates. Species which compete with food crops will also get a boost, and will no doubt make food production more difficult.

I could go on, but I think you get the drift. CO2 is definitely a cornerstone of plant growth. One of two key factors in fact, the other being water. But the whole 'increased CO2 = positive with no negative' is not a realistic position to take.
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Jeremy Poynton
#77 Jeremy Poynton 2014-02-24 06:28
Unsubscribe from thread link in emails goes to a broken page. Please fix, too many emails coming in
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carson lauffer
#78 carson lauffer 2014-02-24 07:28
I wonder if in the next twenty years someone like Mann and trumpeted by someone like Al Gore will proclaim that Oxygen is dangerous and try to limit that. It has amazed me that every school child I knew when I was growing up in the 1950-60s was taught that Carbon Dioxide is wonderful plant nourishment. We were encouraged to plant vegetables and trees and everything would balance out. I think these pseudo scientists need to get out more.
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liberty veritas
#79 liberty veritas 2014-02-24 08:14
Quoting Stryks:
But the whole 'increased CO2 = positive with no negative' is not a realistic position to take.


It is a closed system. Even the fossil fuels we burn were once plant matter. I probably won't find a bunch of Bible believers here - but taking the Bible as a history book, the account in Genesis shows a very different world before the flood. For instance it says that a mist came up from the ground and watered the plants, mentions windows of heaven being opened. It is possible that there was a layer of atmospheric water or ice before Noah's flood. The earth could have been one gigantic greenhouse. Longer lifespans in Genesis could have been due to more perfect DNA, less solar radiation getting through, higher atmospheric oxygen levels, who knows? After all, we are DNA copies of copies of copies of copies, etc. Just the Error correction mechanism in DNA is something amazing. Male and Female mechanism, selecting best mate. All points to an amazing creator for me. Information and programming code in DNA has to have an author.

One single plant cell that does photosynthesis is more complex than the space shuttle. Nothing can explain abiogenesis. So lets just take the position that the Bible might just be an actual history book. There are also books of the Apocrypha that are not included in the King James that give additional details.

Consider if the long lifespans in Genesis are true and look at this chart titled "Longevity Chart from Adam to Joseph". This is based on the genealogy and ages given in the Bible. It is the work of Kent Hovind. When laid out this way it becomes very interesting indeed.

www.godsholyspirit.com/creation/chart2.jpg

Consider that Noah could have known Abraham and also known Enos who would have personally known Adam. This makes the passing on of the historical record much more reliable.

King James uses the term "Son of Man". I have heard that translated as "Son of Adam". When you look at the family trees from this perspective, it becomes very interesting indeed.

Consider the very extensive family tree charts in the beginning of this 1615 Bible.

archive.org/details/biblethatisholys00lond

quite amazing. Watch some of Kent Hovind's videos and debates. I am aware of how most people view young earth creationists. If you consider Noah's flood and a possibly different pre-flood earth, things get every interesting indeed. Consider just this one segment of Hovind's videos. His debates are also fascinating.

Ice Cores and the Lost Squadron. A lesson about making presumptions and rebutting them.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue8rVSmrmZ0

The word Gospel means Truth!
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liberty veritas
#80 liberty veritas 2014-02-24 08:37
Our local municipality now forbids burning brush. Instead of burning, the brush is chipped, hauled off, left to decay, etc. The decay process probably does make undesirable gasses. When burnt, you get mostly CO2...which turns back into trees. CO2 is also a heavy gas, it doesn't go into the atmosphere, it sinks down where the plants can use it.

I would contend that this prohibition is a bad law, based on bad science. Burning brush used to be considered good forestry practice. Now, because people are unable to burn, it results in ugly forests, build up of bio-mass, downed trees, etc..that might eventually be a fire hazard anyway.

I have also noticed that certain mushrooms such as morels flush in the areas where brush is burned. The mycelium loves the ash and carbon in the soil. It also breaks it down. Mycelium is amazing stuff..this is the fibers that grow underground..the mushrooms are the fruit.

Here is a zillion dollar idea for the ones paying attention. It is not my idea but no one has really taken advantage of it yet.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycoremediation

Will some types of mushroom mycelium decompose complex things like plastic and Styrofoam?

Here ya go, try some experiments...you might be surprised. Bonus if you find an edible species of mushroom that does this. Growing mushrooms is super fun and amazing to watch.

www.dailypaul.com/313013/growing-edible-mushrooms-from-used-coffee-grounds

Find a species that will decompose those plastic grocery bags and you will be onto something. The Fungus amungus.
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liberty veritas
#81 liberty veritas 2014-02-24 08:46
Quoting carson lauffer:
I wonder if in the next twenty years someone like Mann and trumpeted by someone like Al Gore will proclaim that Oxygen is dangerous and try to limit that. It has amazed me that every school child I knew when I was growing up in the 1950-60s was taught that Carbon Dioxide is wonderful plant nourishment. We were encouraged to plant vegetables and trees and everything would balance out. I think these pseudo scientists need to get out more.



A typical science experiment from a 1960's textbook I have was to take two jars, plant two seeds..fill one jar with CO2 using either dry ice or baking soda and vinegar. The CO2 is heavy and sinks down in the jar displacing any room air. Then you seal the jar with CO2 and leave the other seedling open to room air. The CO2 seedling will grow two or three times bigger than the seedling that is exposed to room air.

You won't find anything like this in modern textbooks. If you want to know where this stuff comes from, have a look at this video. It is long but worth the watch.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUYCBfmIcHM

Teaching kids lies and bad science is a very dangerous thing to do. Also Google Charlotte Iserbyt

Hopefully the internet will allow us to learn the truth of things.

Here is another gem...totally off topic but amazing when you understand what this book says and the system that was originally set up by the Founders of this nation.

archive.org/details/coinsfinancialsc00harvrich

Also google "McFadden an astounding exposure".
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carson lauffer
#82 carson lauffer 2014-02-24 09:38
I guess Liberty and Stryks are suggesting that if we can cut through the pseudo science and political chicanery we might actually survive and thrive. Let's pray that we can.
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Don Emery
#83 Don Emery 2014-02-24 17:46
What are all these commenters celebrating exactly? I must read this article very carefully to decipher what facts are actually being reported. All I can see is that two deniers have filed counterclaims, and I'm not even to certain of that, because this news is not being reported on any other, well-known, credible news outlets. I accept this may be true. However, the lead in this story couldn't be murkier: ". . . lawyers affirmed that the former golden boy of global warming alarmism had sensationally failed in his exasperating three-year bid to sue . . ." What lawyers? Where, how, and to whom did they affirm, exactly? Why isn't this fact reported elsewhere? This is the very first paragraph of the story, it's extremely vague and unprofessionally reported, and I doubt it is a fact at all. To me, it looks like the wish of the author upon which he pins all the rest of his opinions. I'm confident, unfortunately, that there's no convincing the baying multitudes that follow this column, who are intent on heralding this great "news."
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solvingtornadoes
#84 solvingtornadoes 2014-02-24 18:15
Quoting Don Emery:
. . .. it's extremely vague and unprofessionally reported, and I doubt it is a fact at all.
Now you know how we feel.
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Stryks
#85 Stryks 2014-02-24 21:55
Quoting liberty veritas:
It is a closed system. Even the fossil fuels we burn were once plant matter.


Weird that you quoted me and then totally failed to address the quote. By all means post, but I'm not sure how it was a response to me.

Quoting carson lauffer:
I guess Liberty and Stryks are suggesting that if we can cut through the pseudo science and political chicanery we might actually survive and thrive. Let's pray that we can.


That is not really what I said. I said that while you can argue positives of CO2 regarding increased plant growth, you should also acknowledge that it also has detrimental impacts.

The whole C02 = good argument is totally flawed.

Quoting Don Emery:
What are all these commenters celebrating exactly?


I ask myself the same question to be honest. It seems to just be a write up about nothing, and even then it's not presented in a factual way.

Phrases such as 'golden boy of global warming alarmism' pretty much give the game away. This non-information could not really be presented in a more biased way if you tried.

I'm surprised that even people who agree with this bias are not disturbed by what is quite clearly not any kind of objective report.
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liberty veritas
#86 liberty veritas 2014-02-25 01:12
All of the carbon stuff really doesn't matter. We don't follow the rules, the land never rests, the debts are never forgiven...but if we did, it would be amazing.

www.ecclesia.org/truth/sabbath-land.html
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Jeremy Poynton
#87 Jeremy Poynton 2014-02-25 06:23
I'm still unable to find confirmation elsewhere of this story. Can anyone help?
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AJ Virgo
#88 AJ Virgo 2014-02-25 06:24
The skeptics have won the debate because the public are no longer believers however the Climate Extremists are going ahead with their agenda successfully at the UN and essentially....they are winning.
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Dubya Bee
#89 Dubya Bee 2014-02-25 09:38
My assessment is that the MSM will not take any notice at all of this news, nor will the Obama administration. John Kerry will continue to call global warming the world's greatest WMD. Obama will still call it the most important policy priority.

They are not interested in truth. "Never let a crisis go to waste."
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jsullivan
#90 jsullivan 2014-02-25 11:15
Tim Ball has been cautious and made no public comments regarding Mann since the start of the case three years ago. I am an actual party in this action and thus likely to be better informed on matters than Steve McIntyre or Anthony Watts or other ill-informed commenters.

My article was in part a public challenge to Mann; I unequivocally call him a fraud and a criminal and I declared his prosecution against Dr Ball now unwinnable on a technicality, due to his unwillingness to comply with Canadian rules on evidence disclosure. I say he will not (cannot) disclose the metadata for his fraudulent 'hockey stick' graph otherwise he would likely render himself liable to criminal prosecution.

His says his reason for not showing his data is that he chooses to retain it for commercial reasons, and has declared:

“I have made available all of the research data that I am required to under United States policy as set by the National Science Foundation…. I maintain the right to decline to release any computer codes, which are my intellectual property...”

However, since publication of his "hockey stick" papers in 1998 and 1999 there is no evidence Mann has used this controversial piece of his "intellectual property" for any commercial purposes, while his legal costs in this protracted lawsuit now look set to run into the many millions. So where is the logic and economic sense in that, if his continued refusal to disclose invites further ridicule and disdain in academia and beyond?

And what has been Mann's public reaction so far to my article? I believe his response (or lack thereof) helps determine the validity of my assertions. Based on his conduct to date, Mann's libel case versus Ball is exposed for what it is - a cynical SLAPP suit.

As for Wattts, he has his own private agenda and acts with bias against Principia Scientific International (and the 'Slayers') banning all comments on his site from our members/supporters. Thankfully, even his loyal readers are now realizing that Watts is no objective honest broker. He has even banned me from emailing him. Of course, it is his life, his blog and he can do as he pleases, even if he comes across as self-serving. Meanwhile, PSI and my colleagues soldier on.

John O'Sullivan

CEO: Principia Scientific International principia-scientific.org/
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solvingtornadoes
#91 solvingtornadoes 2014-02-25 11:55
Quoting Jeremy Poynton:
I'm still unable to find confirmation elsewhere of this story. Can anyone help?
Why don't you contact Michael Mann and see if he will contradict anything said in the article. Doh! I forgot. What was I thinking? Michael Mann doesn't speak to the public. He only speaks to other believers. Nevermind.
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maud n pollock
#92 maud n pollock 2014-02-25 14:53
Thank you for these great news, as an activist against UN Agenda 21, justified by this junk science, it heartens me that all that nonsense about carbon footprint is made null and void. Now if we could take on the justification for Weather Geoengeneering, and eliminate the global spraying and dissipating of the environment through the toxins sprayed on us all. There is no longer a reason for preventing global warming by interfering with the sun, by chemtrailing or HAARP..should these issues not be something you all have considered, think about the collusion of the weather folks,who cover up the truth. Go to Geoengeneeringwatch.org for information, disclosure, documents of patents,and documentaries, including whistleblowers. Thank you all..It has made my day light and Love
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maud n pollock
#93 maud n pollock 2014-02-25 14:57
PS more information on solutions.
The Only Way We Can Stop Geoengineering
realitybloger.wordpress.com/2013/03/16/the-only-way-we-can-stop-geoengineering/
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Jeremy Poynton
#94 Jeremy Poynton 2014-02-26 04:19
#90 jsullivan 2014-02-25 11:15
=================================

So you can't conform what you attest, you are deducing that this is the case. Sorry, much as I hope that this is so, that's not enough. There is no proof of what you are saying has happened.

I await Tim Ball on this matter
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Jeremy Poynton
#95 Jeremy Poynton 2014-02-26 04:25
#91 solvingtornadoes 2014-02-25 11:55
Quoting Jeremy Poynton:
=====================

WTF is your problem? Is it that odd to ask for proof of a story? So far - much as I hope that what John attests is true - there is no proof of it, other than wishful thinking. Anywhere.
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Conrad Dunkerson
#96 Conrad Dunkerson 2014-02-26 11:40
Mann and his lawyer say John's claims above are all "preposterous";

www.facebook.com/MichaelMannScientist/posts/662080770514795?stream_ref=10

This is great. Either the case is over or it isn't. Whichever side is wrong about that is clearly either lying or downright insane. I'm sure we all look forward to seeing incontrovertible proof of just who has been telling the truth.
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solvingtornadoes
#97 solvingtornadoes 2014-02-26 12:08
Quoting Jeremy Poynton:
#91 solvingtornadoes 2014-02-25 11:55
Quoting Jeremy Poynton:
=====================

WTF is your problem? Is it that odd to ask for proof of a story? So far - much as I hope that what John attests is true - there is no proof of it, other than wishful thinking. Anywhere.
No, it's not odd to ask for proof. And I apologize if it seems my sarcasm is directed at you. My point is that Mann and his cohorts have been evading these kinds of insinuations/accusations for years by simply ignoring the insinuation/accusation and hiding behind the mantle of environmental activism, painting themselves as Martyrs for their cause.
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solvingtornadoes
#98 solvingtornadoes 2014-02-26 12:35
Quoting Conrad Dunkerson:
Mann and his lawyer say John's claims above are all "preposterous";

www.facebook.com/MichaelMannScientist/posts/662080770514795?stream_ref=10

This is great. Either the case is over or it isn't. Whichever side is wrong about that is clearly either lying or downright insane. I'm sure we all look forward to seeing incontrovertible proof of just who has been telling the truth.


" . . . that Dr. Mann has refused to show his metadata and calculations in open court is not true." February 22, 2014; Roger D. McConchie, Barrister and Solicitor; Legal Counsel to Dr. Michael Mann

Note the wording of McConchie's statement. He says that Mann hasn't refused to show his metadata and calculations "in open court." Note the doublespeak: since the case hasn't gone to trial (that being "open court") this statement is both true and meaningless.

Why would a lawyer make a public statement about his client or his clients situation that is meaningless? Is it possible that McConchie is unaware that his statement is meaningless? Not likely, IMO. It is more likely, IMO, that he knows his statement is meaningless and he also knows that most people will read that statement and conclude that Mann has already supplied this metadata, which couldn't be farther from the truth.
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Ofay Cat
#99 Ofay Cat 2014-02-27 11:46
Do not count on governments to prosecute these gargantuan crimes agains tax-payer, farmers whomever .... because they were hoping to use the climate thingy to get further into our wallets. They just lost a huge cash cow, but don't worry, there is always bank account and retirement fund confiscation ... coming soon.

We need a revolution, or a famine ... a big global slap upside the head.
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billhowell
#100 billhowell 2014-02-27 11:50
Great work, John O'Sullivan and colleagues/ supporters. After a few decades of disgust with mainstream scientists and government/academic scientific institutions, probably many like myself no longer follow the ongoing scince scams day-by-day, but its essential that some people do! This pursuit cannot be done by "official" government nor academic institutions, nor by their scientists, either in terms of [fear, constraints, talent], and without the internet I wonder how well the follow-ups would work. Tim Ball is actually one of the great exceptions (albeit he may be retired now?).
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Patsplace
#101 Patsplace 2014-02-27 11:57
Snakes have a nasty habit of "appearing" dead and you're never sure until the head is removed. Here's hoping this critter will never move again.
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Markon
#102 Markon 2014-02-27 14:15
Way to go Mr. Ball!!! May we finally see some true Carbon justice.
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BB
#103 BB 2014-02-28 19:03
Quoting carson lauffer:
I wonder if in the next twenty years someone like Mann and trumpeted by someone like Al Gore will proclaim that Oxygen is dangerous and try to limit that. It has amazed me that every school child I knew when I was growing up in the 1950-60s was taught that Carbon Dioxide is wonderful plant nourishment. We were encouraged to plant vegetables and trees and everything would balance out. I think these pseudo scientists need to get out more.


You just nailed it.
Can we just kindly reflect on the absolute absurdity of that position ? e.g. oxygen.
Yeah dudes, OXE-e-gen is bad
Yeah dudes, KarbinDieOXEi'd is bad
Trillions already wasted,
Precious mental and emotional energy wasted,
The death toll of this farce is unbelievable to behold.



And yet, that is our present condition, carbon dioxide is life
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John Walsh
#104 John Walsh 2014-02-28 23:15
Speaking of 'Dr' Andrew Weaver, the airhead voters in Victoria, BC - Oak Bay/Gordon Head riding to be specific, actually elected this wretch as their MLA in the BC Legislature! But remember, the FACTS mean absolutely NOTHING to lefties. They will ignore this setback. The leftist mainstream media won't cover it. Ignorant voters are too damned lazy to get the facts for themselves, so you can expect business as usual from the left. This whole global warming scam has been a Soviet disinformation campaign right from the start, filled with lies, deceit, bullying, trickery, and intimidation. Will the province of BC, in Canada now DROP it's infamous carbon tax based on these revelations? February's natural gas bill contained a $57 charge labelled 'Carbon Tax'. And I'm just on of 6 million people in this province. Bottom line - the war against these lefties is absolutely not over.
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eadler2
#105 eadler2 2014-03-04 14:04
It isn't clear what planet John O'Sullivan is living on. The fact that Steyn has counter-sued Mann is not proof of anything.

Mann hasn't lost his case against Steyn.
Mann's suit was sent forward to discovery mode by the judge. Mann has not lost his suit against Tim Ball, it is going forward to the discovery phase also.

Finally, I would advise O'Sullivan against calling Mann a "common criminal, a fraudster" as he has just done. He could get sued for defamation of character and lose.
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C Sharp
#106 C Sharp 2014-03-04 14:40
There seems to be a couple of very important principals here. That is
we need the courts to decide on political disputes and to be the
ultimate peer review, like we need a big hole in the head. We also
need freedom of speech for everyone.

The fact that environmentalists resort so readily to court action and
threats, just exposes that they have no confidence in their own
arguments. Environmentalism is more akin to a cult which knows the
game is up.

We should know better than trying to win the argument by pursuing them
in court.
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Don Emery
#107 Don Emery 2014-03-04 15:21
Thanks to eadler2 for his clarifications, above. I had expressed my own doubts about this article on 24Feb14, but I had no direct information about the lawsuit as provided by eadler2. I'm now completely satisfied that this so-called news item is just a pile of baloney.
To all you ditto-heads who chimed in your approval, I strongly suspect that none of you are scientists of any stripe, and certainly not climate scientists, and your confidence that climate science is junk science must be based solely upon what others have said -- others equally uninformed, no doubt -- and your readiness to agree merely reflects your bias against science and respectable news gathering. You should take a moment to reflect that this story was not reported elsewhere. How did John O'Sullivan get such an exclusive? And why didn't any mainstream news organizations pick it up? Your idea that mainstream media is just as dishonest as climate scientists indicates a social paranoia for which you should seek treatment, or at least take time to reflect why you are absolutely right while thousands of qualified scientists are wrong, and the only news organizations you can trust are off-the-wall bullshit mills like Principia Scientific International. Wake up and join the real world, please.
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john
#111 john 2014-03-16 11:57
Quoting C Sharp:
T
we need the courts to decide on political disputes and to be the
ultimate peer review, like we need a big hole in the head. o .



For the ultimate peer review see-
www.piers.org.uk/ & www.piers.org.uk/pierpages/NPS0international.html
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